Bavarian Moke

YOUR own topic about YOUR own Moke.
Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Tue Oct 23, 2018 17:30

Top and bottom of it is, in the U.K. anyway, if you ain't got the VIN you are stuffed
At least can add up

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Doug G
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Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by Doug G » Tue Oct 23, 2018 17:53

I will find a total wreck here and see if I can get a vin number. Would that help?

But if it is that far gone a wreck here then the vin number 'plate' is probably corroded to nothing.
Having a moking good time!

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Doug G
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Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by Doug G » Tue Oct 23, 2018 18:09

If the engine number is available, is there anywhere where could David write/contact to see if the Vin number could be found by researching that way round?
Having a moking good time!

Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Tue Oct 23, 2018 19:50

So you've ACTUALLY just put in print that you're willing to facilitate the criminal activity of forging a vehicles identity? Ringing, is the colloquial term I believe :shock:
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Doug G
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Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by Doug G » Tue Oct 23, 2018 20:38

Nigel(no top)Sykes wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 19:50
So you've ACTUALLY just put in print that you're willing to facilitate the criminal activity of forging a vehicles identity? Ringing, is the colloquial term I believe :shock:
You don't mind replacing the floor pan or any of the panels that Moke Panels sells? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the bonnet? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the front and rear axles? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the seats? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the engine? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the gearbox? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the clutch? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the fuel tank? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the engine? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing the wiring loom? YES/NO ?
You don't mind swopping any used part on one vehicle another? YES/NO ?
You don't mind replacing any part on the vehicle? YES/NO ?

So if you replace all of these things and everything else, except the Serial number plate, at what point do you stop having the 'original' vehicle?

It is my grandfather's axe. The head has been replaced twice and the handle once.

What if you replace all the items at once?
"Car ringing is an expression used in the English caselaw to refer to the movement of stolen vehicles through to sale to unsuspecting new purchasers and whatever the profit directly gained by each conspirator, the loss individually and collectively to the hapless owners of the stolen cars is considerable. The success of a ringing operation involves the switching of vehicle number plates or outfitting with false identification plates. Ringing is considered a serious form of handling of stolen propertt. [T]he ringing of a stolen vehicle is prevalent, highly disruptive, and a potentially dangerous criminal activity."
In R v Anderson & Pritchard:

"It is well known that this kind of offence is prevalent. It involves at least three stages. Firstly the acquisition of a motor vehicle, either bought in a damaged condition or more usually stolen; the next stage is the conversion of the vehicle by giving it false identification, changing for example the engine number or the chassis number and/or the chassis number and the licence plates and so on — it sometimes involves, for example, the respraying of the vehicle — and of course all that requires premises where the work can take place; the final and vital stage is the disposal of the vehicle in such a way that the purchaser is unaware of its true character."
So what I suggested does not involve the three stages.
In a practical sense: (1) you'd have a really difficult and expensive time constructing a new car that is the same as the original by swapping out parts, but (2) where this happens, yes, in fact it is legally considered the same car. I learned this via my friend who had crashed a racing Ferrari. The beast looked dead, every body panel was crumpled, the frame was warped, roll cage compressed, glass shattered, who knows the extent of internal damage. He told me that the serial number on the car was worth more than all of its parts put together, they could replace any parts up to all of them for less cost than buying a new one and that's exactly what they did.
Originally Answered: Since any part of a car can be replaced, when all parts have been replaced, is it still considered the same car?
No. In some valuable cars it is more apparent. It’s important they be “numbers matching” meaning the VIN# matches the block, transmission and other components. Frame off/rotisserie restorations (OR even better: perfect original) will only use NOS (New Old Stock) parts, or excellent used. In a pinch reproduction parts.

Then there are re-bodies. Say you have a VIN# and parts of wrecked or rusted out 1968 Cougar GT-E. You then find a rust free, accident free “donor car” 1968 Cougar (probably a 302). Everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) is transferred over: 427 W code engine, trans., axle, interior, exterior trim, even the VIN# is cut out and re-welded. (This can be contentious. IMHO it is worthy to save a rare piece of history. They aren’t as valuable as an original, but still expensive).
David (I trust) would not sell without disclosing the true character of the vehicle.
Having a moking good time!

hax_007
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Location: Germany Bad Aibling

Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by hax_007 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 20:53

Thanks guys.
I don't want that somebody is doing something illigal, so I will stop the vin problem here.
I had a long discussion with my local mot engineer today about this and he told me what are my possibilities here in Germany.
Tomorrow I will do a list which panels l need to start welding the shell.
Thanks
David

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Doug G
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Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by Doug G » Tue Oct 23, 2018 20:56

Look forward to following your rebuilding process.

You can take pics and submit it to the Club magazine as an article of your experiences for inclusion in 'Moking'.
Having a moking good time!

hax_007
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Location: Germany Bad Aibling

Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by hax_007 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:58

Hello,
had a lot of things to do but still collecting parts for my project.
I sold one of my classic minis =( Otherwise I would had get in trouble with my girl =)
Two weeks ago I bougt two donor Mini s for some technical parts.
Last week I placed an big order at Mokepanels.
I decided to replace the whole middle of the shell from healboard to toeboard because there al lot botchy repairs of the previous owners. The only things I try to reuse in this section is the tunnel and the seat crossmember.
The front and the rear sections are not in such a bad condition so that's easy repairs.
I hope I can start after the Christmas holydays.
David

wooddypup59
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Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by wooddypup59 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:13

In the UK it is very difficult to legalise a car for the road without paperwork. Its like the aircraft industry - the paperwork is more important than the parts.

You could try to get the identity paperwork of a moke and use that on your car - but that is not legal. There's a moke near where I live with a mini van chassis number and thats not legal either.

David - you will have to find out how you register a car with lost identity in Germany / Austria.

hax_007
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:07
Location: Germany Bad Aibling

Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by hax_007 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17

Hello,
here a small update. After Christmas holydays I started working on the Moke.
Before cutting the Moke I was building a trolley/jig to have a few points for measurements and a better handling of the shell.

Than I started cutting out the exhaust tunnel and centre seat reinforcement out of 4 layers of patch over repairs. I was lucky to use a plasma cutter :P.

After that I started to rebuild the bad sections of the tunnel and added the new floor panels.
The front end of the tunnel wasn't worth to rescue it so I decided to build it up new. If I had seen this earlier I would had bought the whole floor pan with tunnel, but I am really pleased about the result. :D
After some more measurements and panel fitting I was able to weld on toe and healboard.
Next step will be to fit the inner side hull panels.
Sorry for the bad mobile pics :oops: .

hax_007
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:07
Location: Germany Bad Aibling

Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by hax_007 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:33

Now here are some pics
David
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hax_007
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Location: Germany Bad Aibling

Re: Bavarian Moke

Post by hax_007 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 17:41

Sorry for the wrong order.
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