Tyres 13"

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muddymoke
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Tyres 13"

Post by muddymoke » Mon May 19, 2014 23:52

Hi
What tyres should be on my Australian 1979 Moke?
A Moke is for getting muddy not just for driving when the sun is oot !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Doug G
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by Doug G » Tue May 20, 2014 12:09

I have 175 x 13" on mine and the front tires do rub on the inner wings.
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muddymoke
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by muddymoke » Tue May 20, 2014 15:18

I have 175 70 13 and they are rubbing the inner arch! Also they are road tyres ! I wanted something that looked more like the originals.
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Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Tue May 20, 2014 18:14

Chances are, the inner arch rubbing is being caused by the steering rack being changed for a mini one
At least can add up

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spider
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by spider » Tue May 20, 2014 19:44

Depends on which model you have, Base Model or Californian (or more, which wheels);-

Image

I've found all models(in the bug wheelers) rub tyres in the back of the inner guard and the late 79 on (with the under mount front bar) rub on the front bar where they are bolted up to the mounts.

Nigel does have a point, re Steering Rack. The Racks fitted to the Australian Produced Mokes up to early 1980 were dimensionally the same as the UK MKI Steering Rack. A later UK MKII Rack will go in there, but these have more travel and so be more prone to rubbing. Changing the Steering Arms on the Hubs from MKI to MKII types will help a little. It will also feel better when going over bumps in the road.

Just a little trivia on the Australian Racks. They were derived from the Morris (and Austin) 1100 cars, just shortened (by design), however when compared to a Mini or Moke Steering Rack, the internals are (for the most part) bigger. They are an exceptionally good rack, only issue with them is the felt bushed fitted to them. Although, keep in mind, not rack will be any good if the boots get torn and the oil leaks out!
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by muddymoke » Tue May 20, 2014 21:43

How would I know if rack is an original one? It only has 11000km on the clock so I would have thought it was the correct one!
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spider
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by spider » Tue May 20, 2014 23:07

It can be difficult to see everything you need to see to determine that. While it shows 11 000 km on the clock (Nice :D ) due to it's age, you really can't be 100% sure what's in there, unless you have a full log book with it?

If you pull the rubber plug out of the Toe Board, that would be under the passenger's toes (not the ones in the floor);-

Image

and have a look in there for starters, there shouldn't be a in-hex bolt (plastic plug actually) on the rack. This is the two racks here, the UK one top, Aust lower;-

Image

Next, have a look at the Gaiters (or Boots as we call them), that they are the same both ends, there was a style of UK Rack that had different ones at each end.

Have a look from the underside (you can see through the holes in the subframe) at the Yoke retaining plate. The UK one is plain, the Aust has a pressed dimple in it, UK the top one, Aust lower item;-

Image

Next, see if you can see where the Pinion goes out of the rack (that the column is attached to). The housing there should be all case Aluminuimn, if the Pinion is retained by a steel plate, then it's a UK MKII Rack (aftermarket?) for sure, a bit like this (apologies for the poor pic quality);-

Image

and here's some factory info;-

Image
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Tim
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by Tim » Tue May 20, 2014 23:49

Another thing that causes rubbing is sagging suspension. I had mine all replaced a few years back which solved the problem, but the new cones have now compressed and the problem has come back. In my case I'm using a 175 (I think) but with a knobby winter tread, which probably makes it worse.

Tim
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Wally2
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by Wally2 » Wed May 21, 2014 7:59

Great advice from Tim and Spider!
There is a lot of useful info on Austrailian Mokes inc. tyres and steering racks on
http://www.mokesinc.org/
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muddymoke
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by muddymoke » Wed May 21, 2014 14:56

Just check and it has Australian rack fitted :) has a slight bit of play in it tho, are track rods available for it or do I need to send it for a rebuild?
I have fitted new rubbers suspension since I last took it out for a drive so it might clear now.
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by spider » Wed May 21, 2014 20:49

Tim is quite right too in saying that the wheels can rub from sagged suspension, one I'd forgotten.

Muddy, that is very good news!

The Aust Racks can be rebuilt although some of the parts are NLA. The Wave Washers, Felt Bushes, Bearings, Seals and the Pinion Gears are still available, though the pinions are NOS so once they are gone, they are gone!

It is quite common for the felt bushes to squash and thus give play on the non-pinion end. There are alternatives available these days, however, I will point out that in general all this stuff was designed for Minis which had 10" wheels and even though this rack is essentially a Morris (Austin) 1100 Steering Rack, the Rolling diameter of the wheels on those cars was little bigger than the 10's fitted to the Mini. The Moke on the other hand with 13" big profile tyres and increasingly these days, wider wheels as well, loads all these components up quite a bit more than designed for, so things like felt bushes, while OK-ish in a Mini don't last at all in a Moke.

So some alternative for the felt bush are a Plastic one, a Polyurethane type and I do custom Bronze 'fit and forget' types. The Plastic ones are OK for normal road use, the Poly ones seem to be quite variable in quality and brands. Many I've seen are not compatible with oil :roll: and crack, others, just like the felt bushes, squash.

I'll also just point out too that no rack will last too long if the gaiters (boots) tear and the oil runs out.

The 'business' end of the racks can usually be shimmed up, though in nearly all cases they will be a little more worn in the straight ahead position than to the sides. This is what the job of the Wave (or Bevel) washers is for.

From my own experience with these racks, it would be about 1 in 7 that can't be reconnection due to wear or damage.

The Track Rod Ends, like these for example;-

http://minispares.com/product/Classic/S ... 0to%20shop

are the same as those used on a Mini, so readily available, however in later years, I've been fitting the longer types, similar to these;-

http://minispares.com/product/Classic/S ... 0to%20shop

as I've found not only are they longer, they are a little bigger internally. These are also not a special part, these are actually Triumph Spitfire Track Rod Ends.

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Doug G
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by Doug G » Thu May 22, 2014 1:13

Doug G wrote:I have 175 x 13" on mine and the front tires do rub on the inner wings.
. . . when I use full (or almost full) lock when turning.

They do not rub on the inner wings when driving 'straight' ahead.

Just wanted to clarify that.
Having a moking good time!

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Tim
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by Tim » Thu May 22, 2014 3:16

Doug G wrote:They do not rub on the inner wings when driving 'straight' ahead.
That would be a worry.

In my experience, its not really that big a deal. The paint does get rubbed off the inner arch but it doesn't seem to matter. I chalk it up to "they all do that".

Tim
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by muddymoke » Thu May 22, 2014 18:13

Just check mine and tyres are clear so the new rubber suspension seams to have sorted the problem for now!
A Moke is for getting muddy not just for driving when the sun is oot !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Tim
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Re: Tyres 13"

Post by Tim » Thu May 22, 2014 22:54

Good stuff. My experience with it was that it was really good for a few years, but has sagged again now. I could jack up my hi-lows but it won't make up for the lost suspension travel.

Tim
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